BrandExtract, LLC is an integrated branding and communications firm that guides growing companies by providing strategic branding solutions, marketing communications, advertising, print and interactive services.

AIGA Houston’s John Luu was able to stop by BrandExtract’s studio to speak with partners Jonathan Fisher, Guy Parker and Malcolm Wolter and senior designer Will Cunningham about their studio and the creative process at BrandExtract.

John Luu / How did you first get into design?

Jonathan Fisher / I grew up pursuing creative endeavors. I think I originally wanted to be a cartoonist but I did my first ” graphic design” project when I was eight, for a neighbor.

Guy Parker / What was the project?

JF / He was a dentist, I did a logo for his dental company, it was ridiculous at the time but you know, I got into it in high school, interned at agencies in high school, then went off to college. In college I figured out I wasn’t good enough to be a cartoonist so I chose to be a designer (laughs).

GP / I started oil and water color painting when I was eight years old. I always thought I was going to be an artist and then I realized that as an artist, the phrase “Starving Artist” is true. I heard that “there’s this thing called graphic design, where you actually get paid to do art”, so I went to college for that. I got a lot of grief from fellow artists and colleagues because the term they used for that was “prostituting my talent”. “You could have been a fine artist and a painter but no, you’re going to go to the dark side and prostitute your talent and get paid for it versus following the muse and the truth.” So thirty years later here we are.

Will Cunningham / Well I’ve always done creative stuff, always doing art growing up. I originally went to college (Texas Tech) to become an architect and about halfway through my first year I made friends with several people who were in the design program. Kind of realized that while architecture was really cool and that I loved the problem solving aspect of it, I was spending a lot more time on my lettering skills than I was on my drafting skills and I realized that there was something in the design part of it that appealed to me a lot more.

Malcolm Wolter / My story is all of the above. I wanted to be an illustrator when I was a kid. I used to draw pictures and sell photocopies of them in junior high for a quarter. So that’s how I started.

JF / Serial Entrepreneur here.

GP / Hey that’s like a pimp.

MW / No entrepreneur. I prefer the term “entrepreneur” and I am still one some 30 years later. So I did that, I really wanted to be an illustrator but discovered in college that I didn’t have the discipline to really be an illustrator. The kind of illustration I did was very complex and a lot of technique to it and a lot of practice so anyway I discovered that couldn’t do illustration probably to the level that I would like to be and actually I was in a life drawing class in college and one of my professors said “You know” because they were making us draw all of this abstract expressionistic stuff and we’d have a life drawing class but she wanted everything to be expressionistic with colors and you know. And I just wanted to learn how the draw the human form “correctly” and she wasn’t too interested in that so one time I was complaining about that to her and she told me “Well you know, maybe you should have went to a technical school instead of a liberal arts institution” and boy that really really burned me up. Any way I ended up in the graphic communications at Southwest Texas State, at the time, for the same reasons because I figured out I probably wouldn’t be able to make it.

MW / So I got my degree in Graphic Communications from Southwest Texas and that’s how I got started.

JF / So you have two Texas State guys and two Texas Tech guys in the room.

How did BrandExtract come to be?

JF / BrandExtract is a merger of two companies; Fischer Creative which I started in 1994, and in 2003, Bo, who is not here today, was a partner at Savage and had left Savage, Bo and I knew each other because we were both Tech Alumni and I had hired Bo early in his career to do project work for me and I always admired the work that Bo was doing when we were competing with Savage as a firm. After Bo left Savage in 2001 I approached him because I realized I didn’t want another competitor down the street and I didn’t want to compete with Bo. In 2003, He was going back to school to get his MBA at the time from Rice and was starting his business which was Kern Design at the time. Over the course of him getting his MBA during those two years he and I kept talking about what we wanted to do and how we wanted to do it and came to the conclusion that we were better off together than we were apart and so he moved in March of 2005, he graduated that May and in July we changed the name of Fischer Creative and Kern and formed this new venture, if you will, BrandExtract, because we didn’t want the legacy relationships or complications that come from having your name on the door. If it was my name on the door does it become Fisher & Bothe Creative then you add another partner and then you keep changing the name.

GP / Like a law firm…

JF / Yeah so we created the name BrandExtract in 05 and technically closed both of our old companies down to start this new company. So that is how BrandExtract came to be, BrandExtract was really a vision of what all of our former companies hadn’t, we thought, quite achieved. We all worked for other organizations, we all run our own businesses and we didn’t like necessarily what we had and thought we could do better and so BrandExtract is a result of us trying to do better.

WC / And you didn’t call it Fisher Bothe because it would have sounded like we made fish sticks.

JF / Yeah we ruled out over 500 names. Half were taken. The other half were crap so that left us with six. And in 06 about a year later we wanted to continue the growth process of adding core competencies and skill sets we didn’t have so that’s when we approached Malcolm and his partners at Bravo Zulu and we had worked with Bravo Zulu for about a decade and they were a webshop primarily, interactive was the bulk of their work and said, “Hey we’re doing this, we know you, you know us. We’re going to build this interactive piece to what we have and you can be a part of it.” They said yes and came aboard in 06 and the plan has been to continue to add those personalities and skill sets that we don’t have, and we did work on another acquisition but that didn’t happen in 07; two partners they couldn’t agree on what they wanted the name so we continued to look for talented agencies and people who can add something that we don’t have in the mix and that’s when we got to talking to Guy, Bo and I were teaching graduate classes at Texas State in 08-09 and Guy was in the class and he was in my class first and Bo’s class second and we were sharing a lot of what we do in that class and we’d go out after class and hang out with the professionals that were in this class because it was both students that had not worked yet, coming straight out of school and getting their Masters and professionals who were going back to school to get their masters it was a pretty diverse group of people so we would hang out with them and got to talking with Guy about things we were doing and where we were going and that conversation led to conversations about merging ParkerHayden into BrandExtract.

BrandExtract has a history of strategic partnerships and mergers, how do you manage to integrate and blend all of these creative cultures and work processes?

GP / Well part of the fact that a merger even takes place, is the result of those kind of things already being vetted out. People are already in the mindset of that open acceptance of new concepts. When the common theme is to grow your profession and to get better at what you are doing by bringing in other ideas, it already takes care of itself. The reason you may end up not merging with someone is that you can’t ever come to any kind of agreements and the parties at play are not open minded and in this case we’re all pretty passionate about what we do and we’re very talented but we’re also very open minded and have already gotten past the point of having egos involved and we’ve set that aside to learn from everybody. That’s what makes it work. Anybody want to add to that?

JF / It doesn’t hurt that this is our third merger now, we’re getting good at knowing what the traps are and where the opportunities are.

GP / We’re not newbies. I mean we’ve had partners before, we’ve had companies before, this is my seventh business venture. Whether I’ve started companies, lost companies, sold companies or merged them, you learn from all of those experiences. Hopefully by my age you start to learn how to do it right.

JF / Malcolm’s done the same thing. He’s had four companies, multiple partners, so you get good at knowing what works and what doesn’t work.

BrandExtract focuses exclusively on Brand Strategy can you give a little insight on your process?

MW / We have a diagram…

JF / We focus on building brands and helping companies grow. I would sum it up that way. The process is, at its core, to assess, manage and track, everything we do. We start from an operationally based brand assessment of any client that we’re working with. By that I mean we go in and do quantitative and qualitative survey work, as well as competitor analysis work, SWOTs, both on the marketplace and with direct and indirect competitors and we identify all of the touch points, we believe, are impacting that brand’s growth, many of which would have nothing to do with what a traditional creative agency would deliver, because we’re focusing on helping a company grow, not selling them advertising, or a nice brochure or a website. We go in with, what we believe, is a very neutral position in deciding what is the right communication channel or vehicle or the materials that they really need.

GP / We will even delve into the operational side of a company and it doesn’t have to be relegated to only the visual side of communication.

JF / It’s kind of a hybrid. We’re a hybrid between a management consulting firm and a marketing and advertising firm.

GP / At the end of that chain the goal is still the success of the client. We just don’t stop, like I said, with the visual communication. It’s how they answer the phones, it’s the people that they’re hiring in sales…

JF / …it could be their management structure, it could be their operational procedure, it could be their financing issues…

GP / …it could be their dress code, their ordering procedures, their inventory procedure,

JF / So we’ll work with them on a broad range of issues as well as their communications and marketing and showing them how all of these things are intimately connected.

How long have you been members of AIGA?

JF / BrandExtract has been members since it was formed, but the membership relationship goes back really far, I mean Bo’s been a member and past president.

WC / I’ve been a member for six years.

GP / I’ve been a member since 2000. That’s what my card says.

JF / Bo’s been a member since the late 90’s. I’d have to go back and look. I can’t tell you when I joined, I got out of school in the late 80’s so God know’s when I joined or whether my membership is current or not.

What do you get most out of AIGA?

GP / Peer interaction. Problem sharing. Years ago when I joined AIGA I realized, “Oh my God, I’m not the only person that has this problem in my business”. Especially when you started traveling and going to some of the national conventions, meeting people from all over the country you realize “Wow, holy shit, you have the same problems we do!” (laughter) and it was really an eye opening experience to find that.

WC / I was going to say the same thing; perspective. It’s great to be able to go to the leadership conference and be able to meet someone from Hawaii, they’re facing the same kinds of issues running a design based business. It’s nice to know you’re not alone out there and hearing how other people overcome those kinds of challenges.

JF / Also you get key inspiration from some of the presenters they bring in. I always walk away from those events feeling “I need to step up my game” (laughs)

What do you look for when looking at design portfolios?

GP / A lot of years ago dealing with a company like Aquent, I remember them sending me design portfolios, people coming in and finally I said to the lady “Look, you need to send me people with two portfolios” She said “What do you mean?” and I said “I want a designer with a design portfolio and a fine arts portfolio.” She goes “What do you mean?” I said ”I want someone that has, whether they are a painter or an illustrator or a sculptor or a photographer, I want a fine art portfolio with your design candidates” and she goes “Well no one has ever asked for that before.” I said “Fine. Don’t send me anybody then. If you want to work with me send me people with a fine arts portfolio and their design portfolio”.

She said “Oh no problem”. So a couple of weeks later they started sending designers in with two books. That’s just a little idiosyncrasy of mine, I want people that understand design problems and can solve those challenges, but also have a truly innate artistic background so there’s more depth to the solutions that they bring to these design problems.

JF / Will vets most of the books that come in though here.

WC / I would say it is kind of a dual thing. Talent is important, good work is important, having some understanding of technical skills and seeing that reflected in the work is important. I think what Bo always said is that “We don’t hire portfolios, we hire people” You can be the most talented designer in the world but if you’re a total asshole you won’t work out here simply because you have to be in front of clients, you have to know how to deal with people. All of that is just as critical as having a great book. If I sit down with someone that has a great book but they can also sit there and really talk effectively, why they did something a certain way and what the thought process was behind it, really engage me about it and be warm and approachable. That’s great.

JF / One thing he touched upon, when I’m looking at a book, I’m looking for strong concept first. You can teach creative but you usually can’t teach concept as easily as the technical, the creative, the general principles of design. You’re interviewing the person. Portfolio gets you in the door, it doesn’t get you hired. You have to have the soft skills to go with the book. You’re looking for a balance of the person you think can fit into the culture. And often I’m looking for somebody that brings something we don’t have or have not seen. Maybe it’s a certain style or a certain set of experiences or background, maybe they’re coming from a different part of the country…

GP / I mean there’s no reason for us to clone what we already have.

JF / We don’t want to hire designers that do exactly the same thing, we want to add to the stable of talent at the studio so you’re looking for somebody that comes with a very particular perspective to the way they solve problems creatively. I was just at the Art Institute two weeks ago looking at the student books over there and out of the twenty or more books that were there were only two in the room that really stood out. It wasn’t that the others were not talented designers it was just that the two really stood out because they had fresh perspectives on how they were solving problems and how and approach it creatively.

GP / I’m always looking for someone who is better than me. That’s the only way we get better, that’s the only way our firm gets better. Bringing in talent that is more talented than what we already have, that’s how we all get better.

Any additional advice for designers still in school?

GP / Change careers. I’m teasing. They have to be, we all end up talking to an awful lot of students. One of the things I tell students is that they need to develop that thick skin now while they are in school. I hear from some students that they do go through those harsh critique classes and presentations in school, which I think is much more common than it used to be. When you get out here, it’s not harsh, it’s brutal. Develop that thick skin while you’re still in school and in a safe haven. That’s safety. The only thing you risk in school is you might get a “C” or a “C+” but when you’re out in the real world, you might not have money to buy food that month or might not be able to put gas in your car. The consequences get dramatically different. I also want to make sure those students are very passionate, they’re just not in there because “I couldn’t decide between interior design or graphic design and my friends said I doodle really cool in my notebook so I went into graphic design“.

JF / It’s not good to come show your book and be ambivalent about what you want to do in your future. We’re not going to hire you, no matter how good you are, because we’re looking for somebody that wants the job. We’re looking for drive. Is this someone that’s going to bust their tail for me and help us get better or is this someone that’s going to sit and expect to be fed. So you looking for someone that’s looking to learn, looking to grow that looks at this as a profession and more than just a job and a paycheck. You get a lot of students that don’t know what they want, somehow they got through the program creatively.

MW / They have a sense of entitlement.

GP / That’s a whole other story there. We’ve literally had students sit on the other side of the table and say “Well I’m doing this untill my boyfriend gets out of medical school and well, I don’t know what I am going to do then.” I’m not going to hire you.

WC / Ever since I came here to work with Jon and Bo, they need to think about design as being bigger than just an aesthetic application. A lot of students are so focused on making things beautiful that they don’t really think what the purpose of the assignment was in the first place, what the problem they were trying to solve. I think that’s something they’ve always stressed, but it’s not, don’t get hung up on the color or the particular font you want to use or something like that. You have to be willing to take a step back and take a look at it in context of how this is going to fit in the world. Sometimes that means approaching it from a different perspective or a non-traditional manner, maybe it’s not supposed to be pretty.

GP / I usually go for the ugly concepts.

WC / Yeah we do.

GP / Another saying we have here is “Don’t fall in love with your ideas” Give it up. Unfortunately a lot of students do come out of school and they’re in love with their ideas. But even old guys like us fall into that trap. They’re just unwilling to give it up.

JF / I tell students to never apologize for their work. Students constantly walk in and say “Well you know my teacher made me do this” or it was a class project and they didn’t like what they did. If you don’t like it, change it. It’s not like you can’t go home on Saturday and redesign it and come back on Monday and show it to me. I tell them just because it’s in your portfolio, it’s your work. The school doesn’t own it anymore. Fix it. Don’t sit here and make excuses for your work. Take an extra weekend, take your three worst pieces out of your book and fix the three that are soft and then go job hunting.

It’s surprising to me just how many people will come in and make excuses for work that in their mind is not good enough. I don’t go to a client and show them work and sit across the table from them and apologize to them, that my work isn’t any good because I did not fix it and expect them to buy it. I don’t care that your teacher said to make it blue and you didn’t want to make it blue. You got the files. Go change it, make it red now.

GP / One of the things I tell students that are still in school. I usually end up meeting with student groups in January and they’re going to graduate in May. I tell them “You have 5 months until you graduate. Every weekend go home and pull out your portfolio. Take your top ten pieces and look at those ten pieces, are they all great? Can you make one of them better? Did you just do one this week that’s better than one of those ten? Flop it out and put in the new one. The following week do the same thing again. Pull your portfolio out every week. Can you make it better, because you are in a countdown until May when you graduate. Every week you have, every month you have, is a chance to make your book better.

JF / Every year when we’re judging books, one of the things I look for is range. In other words, do you just have logos and ads? Or do you have logos, ads, brochures, websites, billboards, email templates, whatever, I’m looking for a range of work because if they come here they’re gonna do everything. So if someone comes in here and all they’ve ever designed was three things in school you’re wondering whether or not they can wrap their heads around how to take this idea and extend it onto other vehicles. What I tell them is “This is a great ad. My advice to you is; you’ve already done the concept and the design, what I would do is take this ad campaign and figure out how to turn it into a billboard, figure out how to turn it into a few other pieces and to extend them out into full programs. That’s a great way to take a book that’s kind of weak and doesn’t have the range in it that it needs or doesn’t have the number of strong pieces in it that it needs. You take the pieces that are strong and extend them out. Because It’s easy to do one ad that’s good, it’s harder to do a series of ads that’s good. It’s more work, and it’s even harder to do a series of ads that work in multiple channels, doing electronic banners, doing an outdoor board of it. Do signage off of it or whatever it is so long as you take your idea and extend it out. A lot of schools, unfortunately do not do that with their students. They will have one program in their book if they are lucky and usually it’s in their senior year. They’ve spent the previous 3-4 years building up individual good ideas but in the real world we don’t create one ad for a client. It’s campaigns, it’s programs.

GP / And how does that extend to outdoors? How does that extend to a tv spot? A microsite or an email campaign? One of the biggest weaknesses I see with designers that come out of school is their web design.

JF / Yeah there’s not nearly enough interactive.

GP / They still live in that 2 dimensional print world.

JF / A lot of the professors, a lot of the schools, and I vehemently argue with a lot of the schools on this one subject, they spend way too much time trying to teach these kids how to build sites, so they spend the entire semester building this crappy little flash site because they want them to learn flash. I’m not hiring you to do Flash. I have developers that do this. I’m hiring you to be a designer. The schools argue that they are trying to expose the students to everything so that they can pick the path that they want and I get that, expose them to coding, but don’t kill an entire semester building a poorly designed five page Flash site. I’d rather see 3 homepage designs that are static than one poorly constructed flash site in your book. Because I’m not hiring you to build flash sites.

MW / I’ve found looking at interactive work, the thing I felt was most lacking was design principles and even things like typography was really really lacking in particular. Somebody can build a website but they weren’t doing anything interesting with it as far as type goes and in some cases just flat out design. Usability is a concern as well but that’s a whole other discipline.

WC / Something I wish they had focused on; I don’t think real web usability or information architecture was even really taught or practiced as a profession as I was graduating but I wished it had been because it’s one of those things where you learn about it and Malcolm’s been definitely the guy carrying the flag, running down the battlefield making sure we’re all always kind of thinking about things from that angle. My website skills would have been lightyears ahead if they had been teaching that at school. Nobody was concerned about usability it was “Go make this ball run across the screen”

MW / What I haven’t seen a lot of when I looked at student work was any sort of historical context to the work. I’d like to see a history of graphic design course so people can trends going back to when the printing press was invented all the way to today.

JF / UH teaches history, they have whole semesters dedicated to exploring various historical styles, Art Institute does the same thing. Every student has one or two pieces in their book about, like, Bauhaus style.

GP / Actually you’re right because at Texas State they had Art History but that was more Fine Art History. They didn’t have a class that was graphic design history.

MW / If anyone at Texas State reads this article I would love to teach a course in the History of Graphic Design. But usually when I look at books I looked at stuff that was real grungy and there wasn’t much of a range or any sense of historical awareness of styles or trends from the past that can be used for certain problem solving. Because if you had that kind of vocabulary that would be very useful and interesting. But I never see it, I always see just grungy design or real clean sophisticated type stuff.

GP / Grunge would be postmodernism.

JF / Most students do leave some kind of leave behind which is good because you get about a resume a day. That’s what comes through the studio. I think it helps to have something that distinguishes you after you’ve interviewed that you can remember their work by. That piece needs to be well designed too. Often they just clip their work together and they’ve missed an opportunity to showcase their creativity with that piece.

GP / They have to have a digital version of their portfolio. Even if it’s just a PDF, and they should have a website.

JF / The other big thing is that students often want to meet with you. I always tell students not to be discouraged if they can’t meet with you. It’s more important that they get their book in the studio and leave it there for a period of time because in a studio like ours you might have eight or nine people with the potential to review that book. If they push to meet with just one person, they’re giving up a lot of opportunity to have conversations and to learn. If you see a book that is sent to you and you like it, you will go out of your way to make sure when they pick that book up that you actually meet with that person. Most studios will give you some time 10-15 minutes at a minimum when you pick your book up. They’re not going to give you the full hour if they’re busy or if they’re not hiring at the moment so they’re not going to spend a lot of time because literally we could spend every day doing interviews if we wanted to because there are enough students out there calling you that you could do that so they need to be conscious of the studio’s perspective of the problem. Don’t be discouraged or take it as disrespect when the studio doesn’t give them the time of day or respond to their inquiries. People send me emails all of the time “I’m looking for a job” or “Looking for a job” and I don’t have time to send everyone a note back and personally seeing every book that comes in. So we divide that task up so in the studio Guy gets them, Will gets them, I will occasionally look at them. Because no one person can literally handle the amount of pressure that the studio typically gets. That’s something they should be conscious of.

Top: from left to right: Pete Alvarado, Stephen Croxson, Laurie Croxson, Robin Parrish

CROXSON Design an award-winning branding and integrated communications firm that is dedicated to the development of their clients’ brands by providing strategic branding solutions, marketing communications, advertising, print and interactive services.

AIGA Houston’s John Luu was able to stop by CROXSON to speak with principals; Stephen and Laurie Croxson about their studio and their process on how they utilize design and strategy to develop brands and integrated communications solutions for their clients.

John Luu / How did you first get into design?

Stephen Croxson / I came to Houston from Louisiana Tech. In college our design class toured studios in Dallas and Houston. We toured the Richards Group, Tracy Locke, some large agencies in Dallas and in Houston, Rives Dyke, which is now Richards/Carlberg, and Baxter+Korge (B+K). So I thought, “ok, if I go to Dallas I’ll work for the Richards Group and if I stay in Houston I’ll work for B+K.” Well, unbeknownst to me when I interviewed, B+K had one open spot and 22 people interviewing for the position. So that’s how it was when I was hired by B+K and that’s how I got into the industry. B+K was very much a B2B (Business to Business) studio and that type of work has always interested me. I naturally gravitated to high-profile projects like annual report design and corporate identity. Working on the highest-visibility pieces gave me the opportunity to work with upper management. So, I’ve always felt very comfortable working with senior executives, so it was an easy transition for me… going from the drawing board to a presentation to the Chairman of the Board.

Laurie Croxson / Even as a child Steve always knew he wanted to design. He wasn’t sure what it was called, but he knew he wanted to work in graphic design in some form.

SC / Louisiana Tech had a lot of architectural rendering and illustration courses, as well as fine art and advertising-based programs. So I had a plan – that was what I wanted to do. Like Laurie said, I never quite knew that it was labeled a Creative Director. I’ve always enjoyed the creative side and the thought process it involves. I’ve been very fortunate in my career, I’ve always been in organizations that respect the “thought” side of the business. Our legacy, our culture, how I hope CROXSON Design is perceived is through the work we do – it’s the thought process, not just aesthetics. Obviously aesthetics are very important, but there must be an underlying theme and continuity of messaging throughout; so I think that’s one of the ways we differentiate from some of our competitors.

You’ve been in business since 1978. Can you tell us how CROXSON Design come to be?

SC / I was working at a design studio, Ben Carter & Associates, where I had an opportunity to develop my own client base, so in a way I was a freelancer working for a freelancer, and Ben had an excellent creative reputation and was looked upon as a creative hired gun. He had been an art director at McCann Erickson, and had worked on large projects like the Exxon name change. Ben was growing his studio, got to a certain size, and we just had a difference of opinion which presented a perfect opportunity to exit and carry some clients I had established at that point. So when I went out on my own, I already had a client base started. My background with Ben provided wonderful insight because I could see what I believed had been done right, and what I felt I could improve on. This was a good foundation for running my own business.

LC / Steve had been on his own for quite some time when he and I met. I had always worked on the agency side: copywriting, media planning, branding strategy, graphic standards, that sort of thing. So when he and I started dating we were bidding head-to-head against each other on project,s and after about a year we decided the best thing would be to merge everything. In the same week I moved in with him and went into business with him, so I felt like I was throwing my career and my home and my heart all off of the same cliff, but it really did work. It’s a good mix because we have a nice right brain/left brain combination. So much of my background was print ad campaigns, and it allowed CROXSON Design to branch out into more areas. 18 years later, we still think it was a great business decision and a great personal decision!

SC / Yeah, that separation of church and state… somewhere the line got crossed but it works very well for us. I think it does have to do with the left brain/right brain side. Our studio attacks things strategically. We attack things from the point of view that a lot of what we do can be viewed as subjective, so we are firm advocates of defining the objectives of a project and developing targets to hit. That idea of a client saying “I don’t know what it is but I’ll know it when I see it” — the answer is: run from that, because you can never hit that target. Setting clear goals that creative must achieve raises the professionalism of our industry because it gets less subjective.

Laurie and I were actually introduced by Terry Vine and Patti Schumann, his wife at the time. We met at a jazz club. It was Terry, Patti and myself and six other ladies.

LC / It wasn’t so much of a blind date – they thought we were perfect for each other, and if they just put us in the same room we would find each other. And we did!

SC / This was a very attractive table, I might add. The jazz singer sent over drinks to the table to congratulate the gentlemen for having these very attractive ladies with them, so we owe it all to Terry and Patti for setting us up.

LC / I had heard of CROXSON Design but had never met Steve; I only knew of his work and his reputation. So going into business with him a year later, that was what I had always wanted to do; to partner with a small design firm to turn it into a boutique ad agency. That’s very much what we are functioning as now. For our large clients, like Exxon Mobil where they have hundreds of marketing people, we perform very targeted tasks as a part of a large team. But for our smaller and mid-size clients we’re their virtual marketing and creative department and handle all of their marketing functions. The scope of services we provide is customized to the needs of the client.

SC / I think it’s interesting when people compare the design work of Houston to Dallas, you have to look at what client base is established in each city. We’re very much a B2B environment, and understanding the industries and how vertical the target audiences can be, with niche trade publications – that’s why Houston developed, I believe, into a strong print-centric market where, say, Dallas is more of a B2C broadcast environment. From a television and radio production point of view, well, they’ve always been stronger than Houston. Houston’s vertical focus on energy, health sciences and similar industries has cultivated some great B2B design firms like Pennebaker and your firm, Axiom, which I consider to be our peer group.

Actually this kind of leads into my next question. There are currently four people at CROXSON. Are there any insights into what designers should expect or know when working at a small firm?

SC / That’s a good question, and the answer is: know everything. In our educational system, just because a student knows a particular design software or skill, it can be seen as the end-all-be-all. But the education process never stops. We’re doing two new product launches right now involving new molecules. It’s heady stuff and with all due respect, there’s no way you can go in and bullshit your way through a meeting on something like that. We meet with engineers and marketing people who truly understand positioning and particularly in chemical processing, when you have a new chemical introduced, it may be three years down the road from a production standpoint. So you touch on a lot of industries, you touch on the marketing strategy of the organization, dollars within the organization that will be put forth not only for the research side, but also the implementation side. Customers may have to build a whole new wing to their plant to implement technology innovations and that can take five years. So I think as we get more deeply involved with our clients’ thought process and strategies, it gives us a better idea of how vision works for corporate America.

LC / The bad news in a small firm is that there is nowhere to hide – if you’re not producing, it’s going to be obvious. It’s also very interactive; it’s very close knit. The positive side, and this is input we get from employees coming from large agencies, there are none of the layers of management that eat away at great creative. You don’t have have something going through this person and then that person. You can speak directly to the client if you want to. We don’t filter our designers from anything, and it’s all about the creative end-product. That is bottom line. We don’t keep time sheets; we’re not going to worry about spending more time because it’s not budgeted; it is simply about the best creative it can possibly be. That’s why we decided to not grow. We don’t want to get bigger because it doesn’t mean you get better. It just means you’re going to worry about bringing in more accounts, where you’re going to get the next big client, the next new project and you forget about doing the very best you can with the projects you have in-house right now. So that’s why we love our size – we don’t want to lose sleep about ever having to lay somebody off or worry about whether we can give out the bonuses people deserve. We want employees to be able to go home at 5 pm, see their families, do the things they love. Getting away from work can be the best way to clear your head and let the big ideas develop. Sometimes when a design firm gets too big, you get caught up in this machine and you lose sight of the design and creative and the fun you were having doing it. We see firms who are all about getting bigger and bigger and I don’t see why. I’m sure there are dollars in there somewhere, but quality of work and quality of life have to play into it, too.

SC / That’s an interesting thought, I think at some point in time, every principal has a mental image of what their comfort level is, and how many people you’re comfortable managing. I kind of refer to it as “rowing a boat.” At one time I had a studio with 10 people and I felt like I was rowing the Titanic. I think there is a misconception in college that just because you’ve made it through your four years and learned the latest software design program – that’s it… you’re employable. In reality, the education process never ends. You move from understanding the basic elements of design and composition to understanding business and how businesses work. We’re currently launching two new product lines, and one of the products contains a newly-developed molecule – that’s pretty heady stuff. Understanding the “cradle to grave” aspect of marketing a new product line; that just isn’t taught in a design class. The marketing strategy of a product launch like this will incorporate many disciplines – from brand development and messaging to understanding that a technological advancement might require three to five years to build a new manufacturing facility before it captures its first dollar. Projects like these allow us the opportunity to interpret our clients’ vision and gives us a much clearer idea of how corporate America works.

LC / Another fun thing for a designer in a smaller environment is that when we get a creative project – whether it’s a website or a logo – everybody works on the initial concepts, everyone gets to dive in and the best rises to the top. Whichever one the client chooses, that person follows it through to production and press checks. It is your baby from start to finish although some people may not want that. We are very detailed-oriented; down to hyphens and line breaks, and if a designer doesn’t want to agonize over how something looks and what the line breaks are and the kerning and the leading; if they want to hand that off to a production person who is less experienced than they are, we’re not the right place for them. You have to care.

SC / I believe in pride of authorship. We’re very proud of the work that we do for our clients; we just won Agency of the Year from BMA, which is interesting because I don’t typically think of us as an agency. But that’s my own perception. To me an ad agency is someone who’s handling and producing consumer campaigns and doing national media buys. Large media dollars define an ad agency to me. Now that’s not the legal definition, but in my mind, that’s what it is. I think as Laurie said earlier, we think of ourselves as boutiqish in nature and we look upon that with great pride because that’s where some of the best creative comes from.

CROXSON specializes in corporate branding. Specifically Business to Business. Can you go into detail about your process?

SC / Our client base includes start-ups to corporate giants. This morning I met with a company to design their very first annual report. We’ve already developed their corporate identity and branding structure, and this annual report will offer us an opportunity to work further to define the culture of their organization. So not only are we able to provide a visual brand for the company, but now we will help craft the message – interpreting how they raise their flag to salute, “this is who we are” in the marketplace. From a designer’s perspective this is a tremendous opportunity, and from my perspective it’s a rush to be able to do that.

We work very hard to understand our clients’ businesses, the industry segments they serve. An oil service company that deals with well intervention will face challenges and restrictions like high pressure and high temperature. When you meet with their engineers they expect you to understand what they’re doing. Through all my years of doing this, I’ve pretty much worked on every part of the drilling rig – from the mast, to the rotary table to the drill bit to downhole intelligent completion. You learn how all of the pieces work together and that’s when you are able to bring value to your client.

LC / Steve worked on a pipeline repair crew when he was in college, so he’s been out there in the field. Hands-on, which our energy clients love, because it means he knows what he is doing, and when he goes on photo shoots the crews respect that he’s done some of the work himself.

SC / The oil industry is like any industry, people want to know that you understand what they’re doing; it’s talking to a guy on a backhoe and being able to talk to the chairman of the board. The beauty of my experience allows me to speak comfortably to everyone, and have the same level of respect for both. You can gain a lot of insight from the guys in the field about how to do something right, and they appreciate the fact that you want to do it right – the first time. That’s what I still truly love about our industry. But at some point in time – and I’ve owned my own company for 30 years – you ask yourself “are you tired of it yet?”

LC / (laughs)

SC / (smiling) Not yet. But I would like a shorter work week.

How long have you been members of AIGA?

SC / I would say about eight years now.

What do you get most out of AIGA?

SC / With Robin Parrish on our staff now, we know what’s going to happen before it happens… and when we’re busy she reminds us of upcoming events. But I particularly like the speaker bureaus, when you bring top talent to the city. It’s a window into the world. You’re bringing talent to our marketplace, that we would not normally see on a regular basis and it becomes an exchange of ideas. You take it all in, and you start formulating your own ideas of what is appropriate. You try to take that information and use it in your day-to-day activities. Hopefully, that not only makes you a better communicator, but a also better designer, a better husband, a better person in general. And I believe design is a tool that can accomplish all of those things.

What do you look for when looking at design portfolios?

SC / The thought process.

LC / The concept.

SC / Concept is everything John; it’s the “big idea” or magic behind something. I think it’s interesting when someone says there’s only one way to do something. I love to prove that person wrong. There are many different ways to attack a problem, and to articulate a message through certain nuances in different ways, and I think that’s what we’re asked to do as professionals. Take information and find the best way, in the voice of the client, to communicate it. When a client comes to me, I don’t think they’re asking for my style.  What they’re asking is “What can you do to build MY corporate image and brand in the marketplace?” So if I give them Steve’s look, no matter how beautiful it is, well, I think that’s a disservice to the client.

LC / So particularly with student portfolios, we’re disappointed when an individual has one style and that’s it, that’s everything that you see. Because we don’t present the same style to clients over and over and over again. We have to reflect their brand, not our preferences. When you’re showing your portfolio, tell us a story – we want to hear how you started thinking, who is the target audience, and what was the thought process that brought you to what you are. The background is going to tell us more about you and how you arrive at solutions.
Do you have any additional advice for designers still in school?

SC / Read more. It’s amazing when I talk to students and you ask “Has anyone read a Wall Street Journal this week?”. No hands go up. Now think about that; we’re a business doing business with other businesses. The Wall Street Journal is simply the bible. You have to surround yourself with what you want to be and who you want to talk to. You have to project yourself beyond school into the working world. Wouldn’t it be a pretty good idea to be cognizant of what’s happening in the real world? And I get “I’m a college student, I’m on a budget.” Look, you’ve got Wall Street Journals in the library, or go online. But the idea is, once you stop formal education, once you finish college, education does not stop. It just began for you because you’ll be thrown into an environment where you’re meeting with a Chief Financial Officer and had better have a general idea of his job description and what the CEO does. And none of that is by osmosis, it’s all simply by hard work and study.

LC / It’s not just the job of account services to know these things… it’s really a part design to understand who you’re designing for.

SC / Design is a wonderful discipline that can help open eyes, open minds and even open hearts. Use this wonderful talent we’ve been given and make the world a better place.

To learn more about CROXSON please visit their website at www.croxsondesign.com

If you would like your studio featured on AIGA Houston please contact John Luu info@houston.aiga.org for more information.

Savage specializes in results-driven corporate design and branding. For more than three decades, clients of all sizes and industries have brought their branding, marketing, and communications challenges to their doorstep – in every shape and form.

AIGA Houston’s John Luu was able to stop by Savage to speak with Paula Savage Hansen, CEO, Bethany Haley, President & Brand Strategist and Dahlia Salazar, Creative Director to learn more about Savage, their history and what Smart. Fresh. Human means.

John Luu / How did all of you guys first get into design?

Bethany Haley / I actually majored in graphic design thinking I would go into that field after college but after a couple of internships realized that it wasn’t my core strength, I was better on the idea-generation side of it and after more schooling and life outside of graphic design ended up going back and getting my MBA to learn about corporate strategy, entrepreneurship, marketing, and how to run businesses. My contribution to this company is to work with our clients on their core strategy and positioning.

Dahlia Salazar / I’ve always wanted a job in design since grade school. I was always interested in the arts and once I graduated from the Art Institute of Houston I was, for a year and a half, at an advertising agency, long enough to know I didn’t want to work at an advertising agency. So I came here to Savage and I’ve been here ever since.

Paula Savage Hansen / Well I guess mine was sort of by accident. My father always thought that I should be in what he called “Commercial Art” I think mainly because he always wanted to be in it and he figured that I could draw so maybe I could do that. But it wasn’t really what I was too interested in because he had me convinced that I had to be able to support myself once I graduated and I didn’t see any financial future in it. So I was going to be a math major but I didn’t do as well as I should have. My father talked me into trying art for one semester and if I didn’t like it he would never bother me about it again.

I loved it. I never went back and that’s all I’ve known, it’s been my passion since so… he was right. I think that we learn that sometimes our parents know us better than we think that they do. That’s how I got into it. If you want to know about my first job, I won’t go into all of that.

My second question—I didn’t realize you were going to be part of this discussion but… how did you come to join Savage?

PSH / I started it. (laughter) That’s mine, y’all can go ahead.

DS / Like I mentioned my first job was in an advertising agency and that was real good experience but I wanted to get into a studio environment and this was a really good studio even back then, Savage had a really good reputation. So I joined it and it was a much better environment for me in terms of creative freedom and creative development.

BH / Well some people may know this and some people don’t but Paula Savage is my mother so I literally grew up in this business. From the beginning of my time I’ve been exposed to this great business and after going to college and sowing my oats in other places and after business school came on to work for Savage so it was just a natural transition for me to come into the family business.

If you had 3 words to describe Savage what would they be?

BH / I think we’re all going to have the same answer, which is; Smart Fresh and Human. It’s on everything. And we spent a very long time…

DS / …Deducing it down.

BH / …clarifying what those words are and we’ve come to live and breathe them so I hope that everyone in this organization would come up with those same three words. Because they’re very meaningful, not just to us, but to the value we provide our clients and the work that we do.

According to your fact sheet; Savage has six partners,, all of which have a background in Graphic Design. How has that shaped the vision of the studio?

PSH / That’s an easy and a hard question because we all come from… even though we’re all in graphic design, we all have different disciplines. Part of being a partner though goes more to the business side of it. I’ve tried over the years—it’s very typical in this business for designers to not necessarily have a great career path at a firm. After a certain period of time they tend to move somewhere else in order to move up rather than stay with the same firm. We had such great people here that we didn’t want to lose them for that reason because I felt that they contributed a lot of time and effort to the company and they should have an opportunity to be an owner in the company. I’ve made that offer over the years to several people and currently we have six partners, including me. And we have different retreats to help plan and define “what’s ahead for our firm and the profession and where do we fit into all of that”

We basically plan, at least once a year and also meet twice a month on a very regular basis to talk about where we are going with the firm and what’s happening with our clients. What is happening internally and externally and so on. I think that goes a long way in shaping what it is that we do, I would say that the company has always had a very entrepreneurial spirit about it and we like to stay that way.

Also it helps us to distribute the management across different people so we have a four person sort-of day-to-day management group and that consists of three of the partners and our controller and that’s more on the management side. Part of their time is taken up with the management of the company. Two of the partners prefer to be almost solely in design, doing design and doing the work, and they still participate in carrying the design banner, taking that one step further in terms of keeping us on track as far as some of our core competencies. Even though those have extended beyond just the pure design aspect of it. It’s design that has a strategy behind it. Strategic Design is what we do. The thinking is just as important as the aesthetic of what we are doing.

I think that having the responsibilities distributed over a group of people rather than just having one person responsible also helps the employees here, they know they can go to more than just one person in order to get an answer to something or get something done. In a lot of cases it also has meaning to our clients because it allows them to know that they are working with the principal at all times. I think that’s pretty important to our clients. They know that there’s somebody really caring about their account and whether we’re doing a good job or not.

BH / I think what’s interesting too is that, as the company has transformed into more brand development strategy, we can continually execute on that strategy. You hear a lot of grief being given to consultants in general because they come in and they tell you what to do and then they leave and they leave you to execute. Because we are grounded in graphic design and we understand the value and the power of design as a differentiator for companies, when we come in and go through the strategic process then we can deliver the solution and execute a plan and walk away having the client comfortable with the fact that they have deliverables that they can use and measure against. That’s the other reason that I think that everyone’s past or experience in graphic design is pretty critical.

Savage is one of the oldest and most respected design firms in Houston. What do you think is the key to Savage’s longevity and continued relevance as a studio?

PSH / I think one of the reasons that we stayed around is that we made a lot of good business decisions and a lot of that goes back to the entrepreneurial spirit that we have here. We’ve been on —you know they talk about the leading edge, the bleeding edge —we’ve always been on the bleeding edge. We have taken it as part of our responsibility to understand where the technology is going and how it can help our clients.

I think it’s really focusing on our clients and bringing new ideas and keeping client-centric. So it’s planning and staying ahead of the game and really being a partner with your clients so that you are not losing your clients. And understanding how to market; doing what you say and practice what you preach.

BH / We also have a lot of financial discipline as well. There’s investment in innovation and staying on the edge and investing in your company and yourself. We’re business people too, that’s based on 36 years of Paula doing this, we’ve got a couple of MBA’s, we have very senior level treasurer and controller and so we have financial discipline, we have processes and procedures in place and part of our culture is to have processes and procedures so that we’re smart.

PSH / That’s true. I’ve even had people over the years say “Oh my gosh, I’ve never worked at a place that was so well organized as you are here but… I like it” You don’t necessarily think of creative people as liking that kind of thing but I think that even if you are a designer and you look at a blank sheet of paper. Well that sheet of paper still has four edges to it, I mean there has to be some sort of a foundation in place for you then to be able to think freely and be creative. That’s just part of my philosophy.

Recently Savage has branched out into adjacent forms of communications, PR and Social Media. Do you have any insights into how visual designers can adapt to these new integrated tools and approaches?

DS / It kind of goes back to what Paula said earlier. We’ve made the time to learn about those new technologies because whether people are utilizing them right now or not, we owe it to our clients who’ve always evolved based on their needs and so learning about technology and social media and optimization, all of those things. We make the effort to invest the time to learn it so we can then go and accurately apply it to what our client’s needs are so that fuels the partnership that Paula was talking about earlier and because of that we maintain a lot of long term relationships with our clients. We’re going to them a lot of times and they might not be interested in it initially but we will get the call back; “Remember the meetings?” or “Remember that call?”, historically it always happens.

BH / Also, internally, we challenge our designers to know that stuff. It becomes a requirement; this is the technology that’s here, this is the form of communication that we have to provide to our clients, and whether somebody is fresh out of school or has been working with Savage for twenty-something years, we put them on projects and client teams that are going to push their comfort level a little bit to learn that. And also we have the expertise in house to provide some mentorship and guidance but we really want everyone to participate in learning and growing with new technology. What’s also interesting in what you mentioned; social media and investor relations, and there is a split in where it used to be the innovation was in technology, like using the web and now it’s all about social media tools and where we’ve seen innovation in recently is how you effectively communicate with a variety of different audiences. Thinking about the internal employee audiences and thinking about the customer, thinking about supplier communications and finding the right tools to maximize the reach and impact you have upon those clients so part of us branching out into adjacent areas is only about finding and being able to provide the best means of communications for that audience. That’s been part of our path, trying to access these skills we know are important for those communications plans.

PSH / Another side of that is we do a lot of branding and that’s just part of that. Once you develop the brand you need stuff to communicate it so there is a PR component to that we do like to provide. We don’t do a lot of advertising either, we don’t do a lot of ads but we do image ads so the part that relates to the project, we want to provide to the client.

How long have you been members of AIGA?

BH / Paula is the longest standing member of AIGA in Houston! And three of our six partners are in the top ten longest standing and Paula is the longest standing member. Which is really fascinating because it shows how much support she’s given.

PSH / I think what it shows is how important it is, even when times are bad, to maintain some sort of a national professional affiliation so that you have people on a national level you can bounce ideas off of, that you can talk to and you can find out what’s going on. You can participate in your profession because it’s not just about being with your clients all the time, you have to participate in our profession also. It’s like lawyers and doctors practice law and practice medicine. You have to practice design communications and that’s just part of it. It’s important.

What do you get most out of AIGA?

BH / What we talked about as a firm, we really want all of our designers—actually we want everybody at Savage to participate in some sort of professional development and for designers the number one is AIGA and so they benefit, they learn more and they network they create these relationships and share knowledge that not just benefits them professionally but benefits our firm professionally.

It’s also a good virtuous cycle. We get new designers, the designers learn more, they help us help our clients better, and honestly you can’t do that just within the walls of the firm, you have to look outside to the community as well. So we’ve gotten a lot from AIGA and from other organizations just through those means and also it’s been a recruiting tool.

DS / The standards and policies that AIGA has developed that are now industry standards those are all very helpful in terms of being accepted and communicating those standards back to our clients so that they are aware that there are some standard practices and procedures within this profession.

PSH / We’re not, we don’t have AIA and those kinds of things following us but AIGA has provided a lot of legitimacy to our profession.

What do you look for when looking at design portfolios?

DS / I look for, obviously the thinking, and the thought process behind any type of design solution. I look at someone’s communication skills, how they present themselves. Are they able to articulate effectively what the challenge was and how they arrived at their solution. Just the craft of the portfolio itself. Is it polished? Is it well presented or is it falling apart at the seams? That gives you a lot of insight into a person in terms of the amount of detail and what they put into their work. I mean am I going to be able to put this person in front of a client? Also whether they’ve done any kind of research on us. It’s always good to have someone that’s actually studied our background and has some questions and comes prepared and is interested in not only presenting themselves but in asking questions about the studio, that tells me they’ve done their homework. Do you guys have anything else you might want to add?

BH / No that’s really dead on.

PSH / Besides having really really great design. (laughter)

DS / That’s a given.

Do you have any advice for designers still in school?

BH / Our biggest consensus on advice for designers still in school is to take some courses outside of graphic design. Consider a class in business writing or a class in general communication, how to present in presentations or public speaking. A lot of those courses are offered in these schools and students just get into these little pigeonholed world of graphic design and forget when they come out that their clients are in the real business world and understanding where they are coming from and how to speak their language and how to present to them professionally, how to stand in front of a board even, is really going to be an extremely important skill and a differentiator for a student coming out of school and when they’re interviewing will definitely set them apart.

DS / And start to think about that before their senior year. They can call and hopefully get face time with some folks around town. Typically you see people at the portfolio review and it’s their senior year and they’re about to head out into the market but it would be helpful if they did that in their junior year or earlier start researching and trying to get a lay of the land in terms of what is available to them

BH / And most design firms in Houston, this is an assumption, but it is our personality; everyone is open to informational interviews. Don’t wait until you need a job, start using some networks and start talking to people. I mean we’ll spend twenty minutes or thirty minutes talking to somebody, just talking about their portfolio or talking about what opportunities we see out there for them. I don’t think people are really taking advantage unless they’re really looking for an internship or looking for a job.

Sappi Paper: Ideas that Matter

Baylor College of Medicine "Best Minds. Best Medicine." Identity Campaign

Dell, Inc.: Worldwide Employee Communications Campaign

Delta Air Lines: Emerge Book

Sysco Corporation 2008 Sustainability Report

To learn more about Savage please visit their website at www.savagebrands.com.

If you would like your studio featured on AIGA Houston please contact John Luu, info@houston.aiga.org for more information.

Rigsby Hull is a Houston-based graphic design firm well-known for creating engaging, intelligent communications specializing in brand communications strategy and identity development for corporations throughout the US.

AIGA Houston’s John Luu was able to stop by Rigsby Hull’s studio to speak with principal and senior designer Thomas Hull and designer Daniel Pagan about their design background and the process that comes into play at Rigsby Hull.

John Luu / How did you first get into design?

Thomas Hull / My dad is a graphic designer so my first exposure to design was going out on press back when there was alcohol in the fountain solution and you could get high walking into the press room. It was pretty fun. Great exposure for a five year old. There was Rubylith, keylines and traditional paste-up, that’s what I grew up around even though I didn’t really have to mess with too much of that by the time I got to school. That was my introduction to it, it was in my DNA.

Daniel Pagan / I think it was ‘97, when our family purchased it’s first PC (Compaq). I went straight for Paint (Windows 95). As a senior in high school three media programs were introduced — all of which I signed up for. I fell into it—like a lot of designers. I didn’t know what design was until my second year in undergrad. That summer I checked out several books form the library. Among them, Steven Heller’s, Becoming a Graphic Designer (which had greatest impact).

TH / Way more fun than being a rocket scientist.

How did you two come to join Rigsby Hull?

TH / When I came out of school in the 90’s, I had absolutely no interest in moving to Texas. The west coast—Seattle, Portland, San Fransisco—was a hotbed of design. I really wanted to go there, but every body else on God’s green earth had the same idea. I had family that lived here in Houston. I knew Rigsby Design’s work and I thought “I’ll go down and check out Texas”. I had the whole John Wayne, red rock picture of Texas so when I flew into Houston it was so very green, I was surprised it was not sagebrush and cow skulls everywhere.

DP / I wasn’t looking to come to Texas either (laughter). I was raised just north of Houston. I studied in Florida then in England and wasn’t looking to return to Houston. I searched a lot in England and all over the United States. In the end, I realized being close to family was important. I did an extensive search in Houston and Austin. I found Rigsby Design towards the end of my Masters in England (I think via Armin’s Speak Up). I kept a close eye on Rigsby and eventually contacted Thomas via email.

TH / He sent a really, really good email. Short, sweet and intelligent.

DP / I came in and enjoyed it. We kind of thought the same way and knew some of the same people. If I wasn’t with Rigsby, I probably wouldn’t be in Texas.

Where were you coming down from?

TH / Utah. I came down and really liked it, although it was kind of a bait-and-switch, I came in May to meet with Lana, it was beautiful here and it was still kinda cold and wet in Utah and then I moved to Houston in August and thought, “Well this sucks”.

And that was it, I had always followed Lana’s work when I was in school and thought it was really great and so she happened to have an opening at the time—I think I was the first out-of-towner — and I’m still here, fourteen years later.

If you had 3 words to describe Rigsby Hull what would they be?

TH / Naked. We’ve heard “naked” haven’t we? Ok scratch that. I think “Intelligent”, “Concise” and “Clean”. Those would be three words I would use.

DP / I’m thinking, “Traditional” would be one. In the sense of having an affinity for how, specifically, detail in typography is approached and understood in a traditional way. “Considered” could be another one and maybe “Pure”.

TH / We’re not decorative with what we do. Not to say that it’s stark all time, but “considered” as in there just aren’t any wasted elements. I hate things that are there for decoration. We are not decorators. We’re communicators. And our job is to communicate clearly and passionately the goals and messages that our clients want to convey. And so, when I think of clean I think of our typography as sophisticated, fundamental. If you look through our body of work, you’ll find a range from black and white photography with clean helvetica type on a white page to really involved, intricate patterns, images and colors that use a variety of materials and print methods. There’s a wide range of things but it’s all pretty focused.

One thing I hear in regards to your work from other designers is, “How did they convince the client to sign off on that?” I’ve kind of wondered that myself. What’s your processs?

TH / I think it’s two things; We listen really well and I think we’re also pretty good at framing the work and the reason why we did something. I think that goes back to considered, thoughtful design. I mean, if you’re designing something and it’s green just because you like green and grassy green is really cool that year, that’s difficult to defend if you got a client that’s thinking “I have no freaking reason why we should use grassy green and it reminds me of…” whatever, that stuff becomes subjective.

But if you listen well and listen for when the client says, “This is our business strategy, this is where we are going, this is what our peers and competitors are doing and this is how we think we are different”.

You listen to that and figure out what is unique in that story and come back and show them “This is what this means and this how we’ll communicate those messages both in content and visually.” When we present preliminary design and before we show them anything, we spend a good deal of time building the story behind the strategy and design of the program. A lot of that has to do with reminding the client what they told us.

So we get everybody on the same page, telling them why we did what we did and so they’re all saying “yes” and get them visualizing what it looks like before they’ve seen a thing. So when you finally reveal the program, it just seems to make sense because you’ve already connected all the dots and built the story around what you’re presenting.

So comments like “Well, should it be red or blue” aren’t relevant because you’ve already told them why you’re going to do what you need to do. If you’ve done your job of connecting the design solution to their business strategy, then any conversation trying to mess with the work can always be tied back to “Why do that? Has your business strategy changed? Has the design brief changed?” Because if none of those things have changed then there’s no reason to mess with the solution we’ve presented.

DP / A small thing to add; there’s an honesty in knowing what the correct solution is. It’s not just about selling something we like. If it were photography, it’s something compositionally or it tells the story better. In the way Pollock creates a painting, we all understand why it’s a Pollock. There’s an intrinsic honesty that communicates back to the buyer/client.

TH / Also, we don’t present options. We don’t present multiple “right answers”. Because then that opens up the whole door to “Well if brochure A and brochure B and brochure C are all good then why not a combination of B and C?” There’s little reason to have multiple solutions.

DP / I should say, there are multiple solutions like there are multiple truths. Given a project, the solution will be a product of experience and approach. Things picked up along the way, what’s seen, who’s involved, where they’re from, where they go, what they do etc. It all comes together and informs the final solution. That’s why we can comfortably present one solution, because it’s our solution.

TH / And I think that’s why people come to us and that’s why firms hire us. They know what they’re going to get, I think we’re a pretty painless design firm to work with mostly because we are so clear and concise. So that makes a client feel very confident in the work since we’re confident in showing it. It makes the approval process more straight forward, because they’ve heard the strategy behind the solution, they’ve seen the work, there aren’t a plethora of solutions to pick from.

DP / Many [solutions] are explored and tailored down to only a few most appropriate directions. Those few are developed further leading to one as the most viable. We do this internally. It’s never just one solution (work on one solution present one solution). There’s a lot of exploration and we come to one solution based on that study.

Rigsby Hull is a small agency but you guys have more than your fair share of national accounts. How are you guys able to stay small but still pursue the type of work that interests you?

TH / I like to have more than my fair share! (laughs) It comes down to the type of work that interests us. That sounds like the easy answer, but it’s truly what we’ve chosen to do. When I came, Lana had a firm vision of what type of work we did, who we did it for and how we were going to work. Together, we’ve been able to perpetuate that set of core values as a firm and will continue to do so.

We’ve made a conscious decision to avoid project oriented work—where you’re doing one-off brochures—work with a limited scope and impact on our client’s business. The work we’re most interested in is long-term, large scale, multiple component programs for companies and organizations on a national scale.

When you do that type of work, it gives you two things: a long, stable relationship with a client and communications that truly have an impact on the performance of the company.

And when we do that scale of a project we always look for the shortest distance to the top, so we’re very often working directly with the CEO or the president of the company or their CMO. We really avoid relationships where we’re working with the third rung down because it makes it way too difficult to get approvals that move these large programs forward.

I think it goes back to how we “get away” with what we do. It’s in part because we’re dealing with the people who get things done in an organization. When you present something to the president and top management of a company and they understand it and can explain it to the rest of the organization, then it doesn’t really matter what anybody else thinks.

How long have you been members of AIGA?

TH / Since I was in school, so, 16 years, somewhere around there.

DP / I joined as a student in 2004. 5 or so years.

What do you get most out of AIGA?

DP / Professional support. AIGA supports the business of design. An extremely important ingredient in what we do. “GAIN” is a very important branch of AIGA. The support is important being such a young industry. I think the industry is very self aware. We know how to dress ourselves. AIGA is the suit and tie of what we do. It’s our industry “best dressed”. The designer resources, the reading, the gathering/conferences… it’s all very nourishing to a growing community and industry.

TH / Also, I would have to say in terms of support, “advocacy” as well. We’ve had—and still do have—pressing issues around copyright and spec work. Lana is involved with AIGA national and shaping AIGA’s guidelines for spec work as well as educating our client base on how to work with a designer, how to hire a designer, what spec work means and why we don’t do it.

So I think that type of advocacy and leadership enhances the industry because we do constantly battle against the perception that we’re not a professional service same way as other professional services. We’re at times perceived as a bunch of folks who have a great hobby that we’ve managed to turn into a career as opposed to a doctor or a lawyer or an architect—which are considered professional services—AIGA goes a long way to helping establish us as peer entities to lawyers or architects.

Do you have any advice for designers still in school?

TH / Look. Look, look, look. Read, read, read. Be hungry. That sounds like such a tired phrase “be hungry” but you can not take anything for granted. I wish I was better at presenting when I came out of school. Learn how to articulate the story or strategy in your work: why you do it and what you learned from it and what the achieved objective is.

If you can explain how a piece achieves a particular objective—what it is and why it matters—that would be a very good skill to have. It would be even better if you could explain that objective and get me to start visualizing with you what the the design solution might look like before ever showing it to me.

For me I don’t really care about the explanation of the paper or the type choices or things like that because I can see that, but tell me why you did it, and what that achieves, and I think that pays off in the long run because that’s what we do, I mean, we spend very little time explaining to the clients “This is Helvetica and it’s on Mohawk Navajo because it feels nice” it’s about why we did it, what strategic objective it acheives and what impact it will have on them as a business. If you can articulate that in your own work than that goes a long way into what real life is about.

DP / I’m not sure if I was told directly or heard it said at a conference, “…be present in your industry”—I do know I heard it while being present in my industry. Be there. Go to conferences, read and participate—online, in books. Know what books are available.

By looking at the spines of books in the design section of Borders, I know which are new, which are classic, and which are useless (Sagmeister’s “Made You Look” is back in print!). Also, looking outside of design. What is Nussbaum discussing on design over at Business Week? At AIGA NEXT, in Denver, 2007, a study (in the form of a book) was included in our little bag—Concept Design. It’s an important study about a new approach to design — a shift to asking what instead of how. Download the PDF to learn more:. Be present in your industry—know how other industries affect and support what we do. I’d also add, learn to share. Open source is important. There are no secret type fonts.

Peace Meals

Diamond Offshore

Carol Piper Rugs

Rigamarole

Walter P Moore

To learn more about Rigsby Hull please visit their website at www.rigsbyhull.com.

If you would like your studio featured on AIGA Houston please contact John Luu, info@houston.aiga.org for more information.

Allyson Lack & Pamela Zuccker photo by Julie Soefer

Principle is the collaboration between Allyson Lack and Pamela Zuccker. Together they have produced noted campaigns, identities, publications and more for a diverse range of clients including Chronicle Books, Napastyle, Nordstrom, Texas Children’s Hospital and Larson-Juhl.

AIGA Houston’s John Luu was able to stop by Principle’s Houston offices to speak with the two partners about design and their inspirations, how they collaborate from different cities, and what they look for in a student design portfolio.

John Luu
When did you guys first get into Design?

Ally Lack
I was doing a business degree at the University of Maryland and was really uninspired with my accounting and finance classes. I went to my counselor in crisis-mode, declaring “What am I going to do? I’m halfway through a business degree!” and she said; “What do you like to do?” and I said, “Well I really have an interest in art but I don’t know exactly what…” and she said “Well why don’t you start taking some classes?” Did that. Took a few random electives and found design via a really wonderful professor who pointed out “You’re not really a fine artist, you’re probably better suited for graphic design”. I was fortunate to land a student job on campus at University Design Services, creating posters for the student union, and other collateral that was university-based and I was in love with it. I finished the business degree and minored in design. Then I went on to Portfolio Center in Atlanta to hone my skills. So it was a career shift mid-undergrad. That’s my story. Pam?

Pamela Zuccker
I studied at the University of Michigan. I have a bachelors in Fine Arts, so the majority of my four year education was in fine arts and not in design. I was introduced to some graphic design classes in my Junior going into Senior year and it really opened up a new world for me. I knew by the time I was finishing undergrad that I needed to pursue more design education to land a great job and so I went to Portfolio Center immediately after graduation. I also did an internship in an advertising agency which was more of an eye opening experience in terms of what the design field had to offer.

John Luu
And how did you guys meet?

Ally Lack
I was at Portfolio Center in my last quarter, and Pamela had already graduated but was returning for a recruiting trip. She plucked me out of PC and I came to work with her at Rigsby Design

Pamela Zuccker
So having that Portfolio Center background in common was really significant. We had a shared experience even though we weren’t there at the same time and it still means a lot to us actually.

Ally Lack
When you go through Portfolio Center, you often know what you are getting at the end— you know the regime this person has been through, and what they can do as a designer. And so, that was kind of the start of the relationship.

John Luu
How did Principle come to be?

Ally Lack
You want to hit it Pam? (laughs)

Pamela Zuccker
Sure! We had both gone out on our own and left the firms where we got our start. I think the realization that we were individually doing national work (and wanted to continue to) yet the jobs were becoming more difficult for a one-man show to manage propelled us to consider partnership. When we formed, there were three women in the group (certainly three women can conquer a whole lot more than one woman) so it was really a strategic decision about the kind of work we wanted to do in our careers. Ally?

Ally Lack
I think you said it very succinctly.

Pamela Zuccker
Of course I think that the camaraderie of having a partner, the constructive criticism, the constant critiquing between Ally and I, and the back and forth, makes the work better. It’s not really all that fun to design in a bubble when you are independent. If you are an independent, you look for a trusted colleague to share and discuss work. So there’s this huge payback that affects the quality work and the success of your business when you have a partner.

Ally Lack
I guess we should add an interesting point, which is that we were in different places. It never really struck us as an issue because we formed the business that way and we structured it to work from different locations. Actually, it is a great advantage in getting more national accounts because you have studios in different locales, which gives you a larger presence and clients know “one partner can always get to us.” And of course, technology made it possible. Ten years ago, fifteen maybe, it would not have been so easy.

John Luu
Actually that touches upon my next question. When I was reading your bios, you both had well traveled backgrounds; Baltimore, Cleveland, Quebec, Houston, Philadelphia… what’s it like working in two different cities on a day-to-day basis?

Ally Lack
Living in different places always informs you in different ways. It inspires and influences your work in different ways too. Regionally, there are distinct styles and various kinds of design going on. In Baltimore, for example, there’s a certain vibe and a lot of institutional work going on whereas down here it might be more corporate overall. But we both love to travel abroad. I think that inspires our work. Working in different places gives us a greater sense of what’s going on nationally. What do you think Pam?

Pamela Zuccker
Yeah, and I also think we didn’t know differently. We started the business this way. Our challenges are different from other peoples’ challenges that share an office. We’re really disciplined. You outline what needs to get done that week and who’s doing what. It works for us to design/strategize separately and come together again for critiques. Even under one roof you design on your own then collaborate with an art director or a few designers who might also be on that project. So you still need to go back to your desk for a few quiet hours and come up with something wonderful. I think that a little time alone where no one is looking over your shoulder is great, and then we say ‘We’re talking at four o’clock today.’ We’re just really structured about how we function.

Ally Lack
The beauty is having both solitary space AND the ability to pick up the phone or send a PDF, excited to share your direction. And you’re ready because you had the space to create.

Pamela Zuccker
We try to come up with a lot of ideas in that first incubation period and it’s really fun to work separately and then reveal ideas. In the beginning, I can’t wait to see what Ally has come up with.

John Luu
Going back to something you said earlier, you mentioned that collaborating offsite has been made a lot easier with new tools and technologies. Are there any specific ones that Principle has found to be really helpful in closing the gap geographically?

Pamela Zuccker
We’re using what everyone else is using pretty much; applications like Skype, email, FTP and FedEx.

Ally Lack
We’ll do video chat from time to time. I mean sometimes I’ll hold something up to the camera and say “Look at this. Isn’t it wonderful?” That’s instantaneous, instead of having to scan something and try to put it together on screen. The biggest advantage is how technology helps us go faster, at a distance.

John Luu
So you two use Skype everyday?

Ally Lack
Oh yes.

Pam Zuccker
We’re really casual on Skype, we save email and conference calls for clients because it’s a true documentation trail and a more formal communication tool with clients.

John Luu
If you guys had three words to describe Principle what would they be?

Pamela Zuccker
That’s hard. I think we’re forward thinking. I mean, we’re so used to our setup of not being physically together that quite frequently people ask us “But how do you do it?” They email us asking “Can I talk with you? I have a partner that is somewhere else and we’re thinking about starting something similar.” This kind of interest in the fact that we’ve never been in the same zip code has certainly been part of our identity at Principle.

Ally Lack
So “Forward thinking” is one. I think we’re also “Tactile” would you agree Pam?

Pamela Zuccker
Absolutely. I think the craft of everything we create is incredibly important. All the work, every little detail; from the paper, to the embossing, how things open, the form of it. We’re trained as print designers, so it’s really this love of going to press and all the details involved with the creation of the piece. That’s what we mean by the tactile experience.

Ally Lack
So “tactile” is more about the work, “forward thinking” is more of a global thought, so what’s the third? Detailed? Yeah I think so. Tactile. Detailed. Forward Thinking.

Pamela Zuccker
To some, detailed is going to press checks, making sure there’s a perfect PMS match. But for us, when you’re in charge of the financial side of the business, and you’re in charge of selling and marketing and what comes off the press, you’re wearing all of these different hats. Being super detailed oriented with all of these different aspects is really important to make a business successful.

John Luu
One thing I noticed about your work is that it’s got a very fresh but timeless quality to it. Can you guys go into your design process a little bit?

Ally Lack
Regarding the quality of our work, I would say that typography for us is paramount. I mean a lot of things are, but I would say that one of the things that connect our work, from one project to another, from one medium to another, is probably strong typography.

Pamela Zuccker
I think that’s true. I also think what’s important about the initiation of every project is a design brief. We don’t start with a look and feel of what form the design might take until there is a sure understanding of the creative brief. Many times a brief does not exist and a client comes to us not knowing what they want. The brief is a written statement of an agreement of what we’re setting out to do because if that doesn’t exist, and very rarely it will, you will waffle around with the design. You never really know what it is that you’re solving because the client really hasn’t been clear in what they’ve asked you to solve. So I think that the design really comes quite a bit later and then you have a great documentation to refer back to once you are presenting design because you can say “Hey, we all agreed on this and here is how the design correlates to the brief.

Ally Lack
We never sit down and say “Oh my god, we have this new client, and they need this! Let’s make them this!” That conversation never happens until all the information has been gathered and then it’s usually so clear which way we can take them, and it’s usually in a different direction. It’s never like “Here’s our chance to do a purple pocket folder!” It’s never that way.

John Luu
I looked on Principle’s Facebook page and it said that you were attending AIGA’s Make | Think Conference in Memphis, for you what were the standout presentations or workshops that you saw there?

Ally Lack
The emphasis on sustainability was pretty heavy.

Pam Zuccker
The Living Principles were pretty exciting.

Ally Lack
Yeah The Living Principles were probably the most exciting, informative, “what is next” and what’s happening in AIGA. And then again, there’s always the entertaining, unexpected speakers, like fine artists that you don’t necessarily think would be really relevant to our field but you start listening to them and you start listening to their way of thinking and it makes you say “God, there’s so many different ways to think about creativity.” and it’s so refreshing. For example, there was an artist who spoke about his obsession with circles. At first I was thinking, “where was he going with this?” After he walked us through his vast body of work, I said, WOW. The simplicity of a circle was woven into everything he thought about, and everything he created. The work did in fact speak to us as designers. Sometimes you don’t want to see a carbon copy of yourself or someone in your own niche. That’s why I think these conferences are so great; you can look back and say I can really approach things differently. I think The Living Principles were more like, nuts and bolts, this is what’s going to happen, the next phase of how to be a good designer and how to be a thoughtful designer and a responsible designer. There were other speakers that were entertaining but those were two very different presentations that we both liked.

John Luu
How long have you both been members of AIGA?

Pamela Zuccker
Since college. So probably since 1995.

Ally Lack
I would say since 1998.

John Luu
What do you two get most out of AIGA?

Pamela Zuccker
I feel it is so important to have a professional organization to be our voice. It’s a resource of many things— like branding terms or how to talk to clients, professional ethics, etc. There’s this whole professional assistance it provides you on a local level. It can also just be fun, we go to national conferences and it’s a great time to share with people in our industry.

Ally Lack
It’s also an opportunity for us to get together because we do need face time, we don’t run this business entirely from two locations, we are getting together for client meetings in different cities or our annual Principle retreat, location always TBD. So conferences for us, AIGA being a big one, are opportunities for us to get together and say “Let’s have 3 or 4 days of just intense … us.”

Pamela Zuccker
Also we both want to support an organization that exists to further graphic design whether they’re creating a national design policy or working on sustainable practices that designers can incorporate. The national dialogue is really important to us.

John Luu
My last question would be do you have any advice to young designers still in school or just starting out in their careers?

Pamela Zuccker
A ton. We look at portfolios a lot but Ally why don’t you start?

Ally Lack
I think the one thing we see a gap in usually is what students create on the computer and how that translates into reality. So I would say that students need to learn or expose themselves to production because while that computer is one fine tool ultimately there is a gap. Usually the students that stand out to us are the ones that understand type. There are other things to understand but when someone has mastered a sense of typography and scale, that always speaks to me. The other thing is just really being a people person. I mean this is a business that has a sales component to it and you need to be able to speak about your work and you need to be thoughtful, clear, and confident and a lot of art students tend to be apologetic about their work, the comp that has glue on it or whatever, I just want to see somebody come in and have a lot of …ooomph.

Pamela Zuccker
I agree. Also, when you say ‘what do you want to do?’ At least have some idea of what you’re passionate about. I also think it is a really competitive industry right now and that being aware of where you stand, as far as your portfolio, is important. I think a lot of professional designers are willing to give their time and either mentor a student or go through a portfolio. If you don’t have a snapshot of what is happening nationally and what portfolios look like outside of your school, it’s going to be difficult to see where you fit in this industry. I think when we were at the AIGA review in Memphis, we were looking at several student books and they varied tremendously. Students should have an idea of what kind of work should go into your portfolio and who your competition is. If you see certain schools rebranding the Olympics and your doing the local pet shop identity, it makes you stop and think. I think it’s important for students to see the difference.

Ally Lack
Some of these student books are so ambitious and then others look like they threw their book into a Kinko’s loose leaf. There’s a huge gap really between certain skill levels. I do think students should get some professional advice. Don’t go on your first interview as you’re actual first interview. Go do some informational interviews during your senior year, I think that would be a huge help. Everyone should do three informational interviews before they go on a real interview. Because we get some designers fresh out of school and they don’t know how to present, they’re looking at the floor, and they don’t know what typeface they used. You’ve got to have a command over what you’re doing as a designer and be able to speak about it.

Texas Children's Maternity Barricades

Chronicle Books // French General Series

Chronicle Books // French General Series

Paddywax Classic Collection

Chandos Interiors ID System

Nordstrom Gift Cards

To learn more about Principle please visit their website at www.designbyprinciple.com or click here to become a fan on Facebook.

If you would like your studio featured on AIGA Houston please contact John Luu, info@houston.aiga.org for more information.

John Luu
Ok so, my first question would be; how did the three of you all first get into Design?

Kristin Moses
Good question. By accident? No, I’ve always been creative and have been making things my entire life but I never really knew I wanted to be a graphic designer. Then I went to the Art Institute and they said, “how about graphic design?” and I said, “sure”. It ended up being a perfect fit for me. It was everything I’ve ever done my whole life, coming together.

Carissa Renfro
Mine was kind of accidental, too. Similar to Kristin, I was always interested in art and commercial art and collected all types of stationary and stuff when I was a kid. I have always been interested design be it fashion, interiors or graphic design. I accidentally took a class in highschool called “graphic arts”. I didn’t want to, but I did, and after I took it I realized I really like graphic design and so I pursued it in college at U of H.

Aimee Smith
Kristin and I have been friends for twenty years and we grew up on the same street. We parted ways and did our own thing in college. I moved out to New York to hone my skills in advertising and uh… survival… and studied advertising and marketing and worked for a magazine in marketing. Kristin and I hooked back up and started working on projects together remotely and that’s how I got acquainted with the graphic design industry and applying my marketing and conceptual skills to it, which is the way we work at Deuce.

John Luu
This leads up to my next question which is how Deuce Creative came to be?

Aimee Smith
It’s really just like that. We needed each other, ya know? Kristin is the Artist, obviously, and I’m more of the talker and the conceptual person. Together as a team we’re able to, and this is true for everybody here, combine both of those worlds so that we can provide the full package for clients.

John Luu
So what lead to you two collaborating on the occasional project together to taking the plunge and going into business together?

Aimee Smith
We worked for another design firm together for a short time. There was chemistry in the way that we worked together and it brought to life projects in a way that was special.  It became clear at that time that it was time for us to go on our own.

Kristin Moses
We realized there was something missing in the graphic design community. We wanted to do more than create pretty projects, we wanted to create the entire concept behind it.

John Luu
If you had to use three words to describe Deuce Creative, what would they be?

Aimee Smith
Oh boy… wait, it wouldn’t be “oh boy” it would definitely not be “oh boy”…

John Luu
Well like three words that might make a client call up Deuce Creative or might convince a designer to say “Hey I want to join these guys”

Aimee Smith
“Fresh (Art), Storytellers and, I would say lastly “Strategy or Business” because I think that one of the things that our clients appreciate and what makes Deuce work is that we’re constantly revising our systems to make the engine here work better and for us to be able to produce work on time for clients on a consistent basis and instead of this style of “when inspiration hits, we’ll do this and send the clients some designs when they’re ready” type of mentality. There are a lot of deadlines and finance systems and I think that’s a very “business” mentality.

Kirstin Moses
Art and Strategy. We offer the total package.

Carissa Renfro
Think or Solve. I think one of the great things we do here is creative and productive thinking. We have mini breakout sessions and we’re constantly communicating about projects and thinking about ways to make existing projects work or even possible things in the future for clients or projects or Deuce. I think probably problem solving too… it’s my favorite thing to do as a designer and my favorite thing to do at Deuce, working out the kinks.

Krstin Moses
So there are a lot of words…

Aimee Smith
You can’t limit us to 3! It’s not enough words! We need our editor.

John Luu
Ok, next thing I noticed about Deuce Creative, after your work, was kind of your tagline “The Art of Strategy”. I thought it was interesting because it reminded me a lot of Eastern Classical thought and some stuff that’s going on with game theory today and I was curious as to the genesis behind that phrase?

Aimee Smith
It was inspired by the strategy and the art of gaming. We wanted something that showcased both sides of what we do. That’s also how the spaid inspired icon came into play.

Kristin Moses
…everything we do involves both.

John Luu
When I first noticed you guys a few years ago, I really liked the tagline and it was like I really wish I had come up with it first. I mean when you see something you like so much-

Aimee Smith
That’s the ultimate compliment!

Carissa Renfro
I have those moments 24 hours a day.

John Luu
I first heard of Deuce Creative through a mutual colleagues, and I noticed soon after that you guys were winning a lot of awards and getting some pretty good press. I’m sure that your previous work experience fed into that but was curious as to how Deuce was able to hit the ground running so fast?

Aimee Smith
Because we had to? When we started Deuce Creative we didn’t have a portfolio to show, so we had to work hard to build it. We didn’t have a website that showcased our work until January of this year. Long nights… long days and long nights. We used to all live at Kristin’s townhome and work all day and all night.

Carissa Renfro
We always look back and joke about how when we first started the evolution of the Deuce brand actually is kind of a nice example of how lo-fi things were. We used to cut our business cards out, remember?

Aimee Smith
That’s right.

Carissa Renfro
We cut them by hand with X-Acto blades, we had business cards that were hand cut for the first couple of months.

Kristin Moses
Because we were so busy.

Aimee Smith
We were busy, we didn’t have any money and we just needed a business card.

John Luu
Do you guys have any advice for younger designers who might be looking to start up their own agency or firm?

Kristin Moses
When we started our firm I think we had a very clear idea of what we didn’t want to do and I think the experience really helped. I know a lot of people get out of school and think “oh I want to start my own firm” and I think that’s a terrible idea. I think it is so important to work somewhere else and try to figure out what works and what doesn’t work and where there’s a need for something and try to fill that hole, which I think we did really well.

Aimee Smith
Have a strong sense of who you are as a designer and as a brand.

Kristin Moses
And figure out how you are going to be different than any other design firm. I think that’s why we’ve been really successful and why all of our clients are repeat clients and why we get referrals so much, because we did think all of that out in the beginning. I mean, it’s a lot of work but it’s worth it.

Aimee Smith
I think the way you incorporate your business is important. Not legally but how you choose to structure it, is it a partnership? Is it a sole proprietorship? Is it three partners? I mean, I can’t imagine having done this on my own. That brings up a whole other question; having a business partner is like being in a marriage, you have to have to be really dedicated to that person.

Kristin Moses
I think it’s important to have a strong business sense. You just can’t just simply have a good design sense because half of my job is not designing, it’s logistics and running this company and the money and the invoicing and figuring out what we need to do and what we can’t do. And so you’ve got to want to do that type of thing, too. It’s not just sitting around designing all day. It’s a lot of project management, putting out fires, fixing things and making sure everything is running smoothly.

Aimee Smith
And understanding that you are answering to every client that you have, I mean every client we have is our boss. It’s not like we don’t have a boss. We have so many bosses.

Carissa Renfro
One thing that might be helpful for aspiring business owners in the design field or just even students coming out of school—it has been really interesting to work for Kristin and Aimee from the very beginning because I witnessed the entire process.  I suggest definitely working in a small firm, you learn a lot about the structure and organization of it from the base level.

Krstin Moses
Because everyone is wearing more hats, the smaller you are, but it’s also nice because as a smaller firm it’s more boutique and I think the clients have more access. Sometimes when you get too big you can’t service your clients as well as you could when you were seven to fourteen people. It’s a jump.

John Luu
I looked on your Facebook page and I saw that Deuce Creative has like over 300 fans, what is your take on agencies engaging in social networking sites and having that level of conversations take place with your clients, your vendors, and, I guess, your peers in other agencies on such a public forum?

Aimee Smith
We just launched our Facebook page and it took a lot of internal meetings and discussions. We had to plan out what it was going to look like and be careful about the information that we’re presenting and not self promote too much. It needs to engage the viewer but not be too personal so we’re constantly having discussions about the content that we’re putting up on the Facebook page.

John Luu
Do you guys have like a process through which content get approved and posted?

Aimee Smith
Yeah, we all contribute but Carissa does a lot of the work on the Facebook front so she’s sort of our expert on Social Media

Carissa Renfro
It’s definitely a balance because Facebook started with individuals, you know just people, and college students specifically and it’s evolved to where it’s beyond just college students. Now there’s this huge presence of businesses, so it’s interesting looking at different Facebook pages and choosing what to write about. It’s actually a fun little extra thing. We just try to do one thing a week, keeping friends of Deuce and clients of Deuce posted on what goes on day to day.

Aimee Smith
And it helps for clients and friends to understand who we are as designers and as a team by sharing articles or designers that we like or people that we’re following. I can’t think of any other forum where you would be able to communicate those types of preferences or information-

Krstin Moses
- on a weekly basis. Even email marketing gets old and people, they stop reading your email blast but Facebook is very current, it’s with the times and I think you have to do it. And I think a lot of our clients too are looking to us and asking for those things and so we want to be current in the avenue of marketing and in what’s happening and what’s going.

Carissa Renfro
And right, that’s definitely an added bonus to having a Facebook page for Deuce, clients of ours that are very much interested in social networking online. It’s the best research tool because we’re doing it so you want to be as much of an expert in setting something up for a client and by doing that you just have to do it. It’s not like you can read about what it’s like to be on Facebook, so that’s an added bonus.

Aimee Smith
It’s an added bonus for our clients too when we can promote them and what’s going on with them. And even I think for clients who don’t have their own presence online in terms of social media, they’re interested and it’s a lot of work to keep up and it’s kind of a perk in that way for them too.

John Luu
What would be your response to people who feel that social media is just a fad?

Aimee Smith
I think it will change and evolve, like everything else, as it already has but it probably won’t go away. For now it’s a really great way communicate and whatever the next thing is, we’ll adapt to and adopt that.

Carissa Renfro
I agree, I mean already you’re starting to see tons of press about backlash against Facebook and “Facebook is out, Twitter is in” but it’s just a matter of time before Twitter is out and the next new thing is in and so but yeah, Social Media as a whole will never be out but the format will definitely continue to evolve.

John Luu
I guess my last question would be: for the young design student still in school or to a professional designer looking to improve, any advice for them to help them grow as a designer? And what firms and agencies might by looking for?

Carissa Renfro
Look at design as much as possible, good and bad. I mean obviously not just design but being a designer you wear a bunch of hats.

Aimee Smith
Or shoes…

Carissa Renfro
Yeah, here at our office it’s a bunch of shoes. Every person here comes in with a different pair of shoes everyday. But as I was saying, look at design, look at everything. Our job is based on consumerism and so there’s nothing that you can not intake when you look out your window that doesn’t have to do with being a graphic designer. So I guess to sum it up, be an observer, an observer of all things. In addition to interning and doing all of those other things, observing is the key because we’re designers but we’re also consumers and we understand what it’s like to be a member of a target audience and so, yeah, observe.

To learn more about Deuce Creative please visit their website at www.deucecreative.com or click here to become a fan on Facebook.

If you would like your studio featured on AIGA Houston please contact John Luu, info@houston.aiga.org for more information.